Re: Our Sacred Land | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

Our Sacred Land

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Gwass Sep 5, 2011 17:26:09

Replying to tjj

tjj wrote:

Gwass wrote:

It seems to me people are missing the major point here which is supply and demand.

The biggest threat to our countryside is the unprecedented levels of demand. You can blame the developers and the tories but without the demand there isn't an issue.

No one has mentioned the fact that a large proportion of this demand is extra housing for the hundreds of thousand s of extra people arriving here year on year. Sort out the immigration problem and you remove a large proportion of demand.

It's not rocket science, if hundreds of thousands of people are arriving every year extra homes are needed. Last year the population swelled by something like 300,000, that's the equivalent of the population of a city the size of Stoke on Trent from immigration alone.

Why this elephant in the room is ignored is beyond me, probably because of political correctness and people are afraid of raising perfectly reasonable concerns because they will be labelled a racist by far left idiots.

Solve the immigration problem & you remove the most substantial threat to our 'sacred land'. It's what the vast majority of the population want anyway & this is supposed to be a democracy.

I don't think you are racist Gwass, measured debate about over-population on these small islands needs to take place without fear of being labelled racist. I think a large part of the problem is the freedom of movement provision for EU members. As the European Union grows ever larger, English has become the second language most Europeans learn in school so the British Isles is where many (too many probably) people head for in search of employment. So it is not just housing that is under a strain but health services (maternity services are under a particular strain), education sevices, employment, even prisons. Its part of the big picture, and to be honest I think most people just feel too jaded and disempowered to tackle it.

Meanwhile we have to settle for protecting little bits a precious land that apart from the flora and fauna may have prehistoric or historic associations.

Thanks June.

I agree whole heartedly. Unfortunately the politicians signed away any right to limit movement from within the EU. It's clear that our infrastructure isn't able to cope with the numbers here so everyone suffers. Also why allow hundreds of thousands of economic migrants when we have 3million unemployed? It's crazy they're just joining the dole queue straight away.

I know there are bigger problems than just our love of the countryside and particularly prehistory but it demonstartes how overpopulation affects so many things and aspects of life. I read that we need c100,000 new houses per year for the next 25 yrs (don't quote me on that) to cope with the numbers of people arriving. How that isn't going to have an impact on our countryside & therefore threaten ancient sites is beyond me.

We need brave people to tackle the situation propperly as it needs to be rather than small minded people stifling any debate with ideological & false cries of racism.

blossom Sep 5, 2011 18:56:44

Replying to Gwass

Gwass wrote:

Thanks June.

We need brave people to tackle the situation propperly as it needs to be rather than small minded people stifling any debate with ideological & false cries of racism.

I don't want to get into a debate about whether someone is being rascist or not but do feel that there is a lot of myth surrounding economic migrants and would just like to correct an error you made.
These are the rules regarding economic migrants and "dole" as you called it.

What about entitlement to benefits?
Migrant Workers
The rules are complicated and can be different for different groups and nationalities. Foreign nationals are not entitled to benefits when they are seeking work, unless they have already worked here and are temporarily unemployed. Citizens from the A8 countries for example, become entitled to benefits and housing if they are self-employed here, or if they have a job and register with the Workers Registration Scheme. Once they have been working lawfully for a year they no longer have to register when changing jobs and they become eligible for benefits when temporarily out of work as well as when working.

Squid Tempest Sep 6, 2011 11:52:50

Replying to Gwass

Gwass wrote:

We need brave people to tackle the situation propperly as it needs to be rather than small minded people stifling any debate with ideological & false cries of racism.

Sorry, I've got to take you to task here. On the other part of this thread I've apologised for calling you racist, that was wrong of me, and I'd like to take that back. However, I don't agree with your stance, and I do consider it to be a dangerous point of view, albeit one held by large sectors of the population. Sensible answer coming right up.

First, you seem to be under the impression that something called "an indigenous population" is being invaded by Europeans. This is a false premise. For hundreds (or even thousands) of years our population has been made up from people from various European countries, and many from further afield. There is nothing new here, and nothing wrong here. There should be no barriers between people in my opinion. Otherwise you perpetuate an "us and them" situation, which is inherently racist. Our country has always been, and hopefully always will be, multicultural and cosmopolitan. Population on our continent is mobile, and this needs to be accepted.

Secondly, as Sea Cat so eloquently pointed out, the main problem isn't immigration, it is population explosion. If you really want to limit numbers you need to promote birth control and smaller family size. Not enforce it, that is a dangerous and repressive path. But to make it available and free for those who need it, and to also educate young people not to start families when they are too young and ill-prepared to deal with the responsibilities.

Population explosion is the real nettle that needs to be grasped, not immigration. This is the problem that faces the resource-hungry West. The "growth" promoted by our wonderful leaders is not sustainable.

I can't help but think we should be having this discussion over on U-Know - TMA isn't really the place for these political topics. I hope the Eds won't take exception. I suppose it will help if we try to keep it polite (which I should have done earlier!).