Re: Tidying up offerings | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

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tjj Jun 1, 2010 07:42:22

Replying to Resonox

Resonox wrote:

revnox wrote:

sorry if i was rude, funny we don't always realise how things may be read in the absence of facial expression and tone etc.
All that said, I still feel that individuals expression of devotion, love, gratitude etc are as valid (if not more so) than disdain, anger dismissal and hatred. One lifts us up, however little and the other divides us.
If there is no damage to the site nor it's environment then we should like compassionate adults put aside our personal likes and dislikes and live and let live.

But surely this would've applied to the "pillocks with metal detectors" you pilloried with, IMO a great deal of disdain if not hatred on another topic, admittedly you recanted your rant about them as you checked and found they hadn't damaged the site(yet)where ever it is...but like I said they may come back...(and by doing nothing ..you will be party to the site being desecrated)
However your freedom of expression(ie to commune with nature)was destroyed because you were forced to leave. Their methods according to your narrative were highly intimidating and you were there to witness their facial expressions etc after all....
Reading your statement here, I now "assume" that if they ever returned in your presence and disrupted your communing session you wouldn't "leave with a bitter taste in your mouth", but rather allow them free rein to express their love of treasure hunting and stealing of historic artefacts by encouraging them? Please assure me my assumption is wrong by saying you would actively deter these thieves from not only stealing any ancient finds(at least inform the appropriate authority), but also from stealing your freedom of expression and right to be there, because your meditative communing with nature at these sites rather than leave any physical proof or testament is what most posters on this thread are trying to encourage.

I like what you have said Revnox though can see that Resonox also feels passionately about this issue (he/she reminds me of someone). Good points both well made - here's to tolerance, 'live and let live', and education of the ill-informed.

I thought maybe some music to start the day "Don't let me be misunderstood" or "All you need is love" - I've opted for this one (don't leave Revnox, its good to have debate and different points of view).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnrPP3qkM0E

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nigelswift Jun 1, 2010 08:32:58

Replying to Resonox

I'd like to back you up on both of your main points Resonox, lest you be characterised as being in an eccentric minority (which is the reverse of the truth) or somehow unreasonable (which is so patently not the case).

First, to ask the vast majority who leave nothing at sites to take a "live and let live" attitude to the tiny minority that foist their own wishes on everyone else in a physical form is PC gone mad. If the majority remove some stuff and kindly allow some stuff to remain the leavers should be being humbly and guiltily grateful not asserting their "rights" to have their stuff left untouched or having them asserted for them.

Second, if anyone sees anyone metal detecting on a protected site that's a criminal, imprisonable offence, and the damage they are doing is precisely and exactly of the nature of painting graffiti on stones, (but worse actually, as it's stealing knowledge as well as damaging sites) so tell the police, it ain't rocket science. They belong behind bars. Ain't I intolerant, eh? Yes I bloody am.

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revnox Jun 1, 2010 17:17:54

Replying to Resonox

"But surely this would've applied to the "pillocks with metal detectors" you pilloried with, IMO a great deal of disdain if not hatred on another topic, admittedly you recanted your rant about them as you checked and found they hadn't damaged the site(yet)where ever it is...but like I said they may come back...(and by doing nothing ..you will be party to the site being desecrated)
However your freedom of expression(ie to commune with nature)was destroyed because you were forced to leave. Their methods according to your narrative were highly intimidating and you were there to witness their facial expressions etc after all....
Reading your statement here, I now "assume" that if they ever returned in your presence and disrupted your communing session you wouldn't "leave with a bitter taste in your mouth", but rather allow them free rein to express their love of treasure hunting and stealing of historic artefacts by encouraging them? Please assure me my assumption is wrong by saying you would actively deter these thieves from not only stealing any ancient finds(at least inform the appropriate authority), but also from stealing your freedom of expression and right to be there, because your meditative communing with nature at these sites rather than leave any physical proof or testament is what most posters on this thread are trying to encourage.[/quote]

I can see your point to a degree and I did in fact treat the detector men with disdain it wasn't because they were there or even the detectors just the plain bad manners!
I would consider anyone lacking in common courtesy with disdain after all manners are what lubricate the wheels of social interaction.
However that said destroying or removing quite innocent and non-harmful symbols etc is as bad mannered as any other imposition be it music litter etc etc
And I can assure you the site in question is being watched quite closely, my friend is it's closest neighbour and rather a large chap.
I concur the rubbish, damage and other harmful or bad mannered interactions should be stopped!
However I would not leave it to the jack booted stone police whoever they are!