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Sadly, gorseddphungus, I remain unconvinced that you are as versed in Japanese history and religion as you claim to be. You say, for example, that -

>The very fact of talking now about shinto is equally just an intellectual waste of time although there is an enormous bulk of literature (mostly Western of course like there is about Japan). And the rituals involved are kept and known only by the monks, which is also, in my opinion, very 'megalithic'.<

Strange, anyone with a proper understanding of Shinto will know that there are <i>no</i> monks in Shinto - there are only priests (and very megalithic?).

Again you say that -

>...what is the most suitable word for 'temple' - it is jinja. I call them all temples but strictly speaking only the temples are the places where there is a worship of Buddhism (ie the imported organised religion).<

Quite, no-one (Japanese or non-Japanese) with a proper understanding of Shinto would refer to a Shinto <i>jinja</i> (shrine) as a temple. Buddhist temples are referred to either as <i>otera</i> (you omitted the honorific 'o') or the name of the Buddhist temple is suffixed with <i>ji</i> (eg Ryoan-ji, Daitoku-ji). Shinto shrine names are suffixed with <i>jinja</i> or <i>jingu</i> (eg Ise-jingu, Yasakuni-jinja). To refer to a Shinto shrine as a 'temple' is as bizarre as referring to St Paul's Cathedral as St Paul's Temple! These differences are <i>extremely</i> important and anyone who claims to know, or to have travelled in Japan, would be aware of them.

As this line of discussion is becoming increasingly off-topic I will now close on the matter.

Maybe the Japanese thing should have its own thread.

I suppose that just about invalidates absolutely everything I have said before.

“I remain unconvinced that you are as versed in Japanese history and religion as you claim to be”

Since when did I ‘claim’ that and why do I have to convince you? Wouldn’t it be fair for me to get my turn now to check out if you are the ‘real thing’ so I can believe that observation from someone who has shown nothing but unexplainable hostility from the very beginning?

”anyone with a proper understanding of Shinto will know that there are <i>no</i> monks in Shinto - there are only priests (and very megalithic?)”

That may well be true, if I used a sloppy vocabulary. But was there such a difference in ancient terms? And wouldn’t you agree that megalithic tombs (and even ancient shinto) were enclosed spaces used by only a few? Would you call them monks or priests then?

” Quite, no-one (Japanese or non-Japanese) with a proper understanding of Shinto would refer to a Shinto <i>jinja</i> (shrine) as a temple”

“Shinto shrine names are suffixed with <i>jinja</i> or <i>jingu</i> (eg Ise-jingu, Yasakuni-jinja). To refer to a Shinto shrine as a 'temple' is as bizarre as referring to St Paul's Cathedral as St Paul's Temple! “

I thought I had already made that clear on my second annexed post regarding the distinction between shinto shrines and buddhist temples. You clearly set a strict time limit for answers. In that case, no-one you police in the future will ever pass your tests. Unless one spends all of their time in front of the computer, that is.

“Buddhist temples are referred to either as <i>otera</i> (you omitted the honorific 'o') or the name of the Buddhist temple is suffixed with <i>ji</i> (eg Ryoan-ji, Daitoku-ji). “

Indeed but the honorific ‘o’ is not necessarily a must with Japanese words.

“As this line of discussion is becoming increasingly off-topic I will now close on the matter.”

Agreed, because, as I pointed out to you before, every time one drops in a forum, one is forced to waste precious time on empty dialectics with an individual who throws preventive strikes without discussing anything in particular and just happy to question one's own ‘ability’ to even make a point. In that case excuse my making those 'strange' observations in the first place if they were so new for you.

And thanks anyway for your enormous insight and comments into Jomon prehistory.

XXX
GP