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>This is why describing and talking about subjective experiences is so difficult, we don't have any common reference points or adequate language to communicate what's happened outside our own frames of reference...<

You've put your finger on a very important point there Rune. We <i>are</i> restricted in how we perceive the world by the culture we've been born into and the language that culture has developed to describe what it perceives. I have knowledge of only two cultures and two languages but they are <i>so</i> different that it's frankly impossible to combine them; it's almost like being able to see someone's face, either frontal or in profile, but unable to connect them. The frontal and profile images are both equally true but never combine to give a full and 'rounded' picture.

The mystical/spiritual experience seems to bypass the restricted view we generally have of the world and for a moment the circle appears complete (needed to get the mention of a circle in somewhere before I get my wrists slapped for being way off TMA topic :-)

>> We are restricted in how we perceive the world by the culture we've been born into and the language that culture has developed to describe what it perceives.<<

We certainly are Littlestone, not only that, we are also bound by our own self-created and self-limiting beliefs. I found the following article very interesting and the analogy of the 'writing on our walls' illuminating.
http://www.emofree.com/palaceof.htm

>>I have knowledge of only two cultures and two languages but they are so different that it's frankly impossible to combine them;<<

Particularly if one culture is Eastern and the other Western.

>> it's almost like being able to see someone's face, either frontal or in profile, but unable to connect them. The frontal and profile images are both equally true but never combine to give a full and 'rounded' picture.<<

As soon as I read your words, I saw an image in my mind's eye of one of Picasso's 3-eyed women, maybe that's what he was trying to convey when he painted them, thank-you for that insight :-)

Ah yes, circles! I don't think this is off-topic for TMA, what we're duscussing is often created in ourselves or by some external force in/near the circles and other ancient places, or by an interraction of both.

Rune :-)