Druids and Stone Circles | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

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tiompan Oct 12, 2009 11:00:47

Replying to Branwen

Branwen wrote:

Littlestone wrote:

The Journal of a Tour to the Hebrides by James Boswell
Monday, 30th August 1773: Inverness, Fort Augustus.
About three miles beyond Inverness, we saw, just by the road, a very complete specimen of what is called a Druid's temple. There was a double circle, one of very large, the other of smaller stones. Dr Johnson justly observed, that, 'to go and see one druidical temple is only to see that it is nothing, for there is neither art nor power in it; and seeing one is quite enough'.
Thanks to Nigel Swift for this one - http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/forum/?thread=54621

I was reading the above and it got me thinking. How many circles actually have any real connections to Druid's? When I first joined druid groups because some of the storytellers I had growing up were druids, I was mistified at the stubborness of some of them in claiming Stonehenge, for instance. Less blinkered people at some of their forums said they only had circles with a large stone in the centre, and outliers, which fits the description of the site above, but it was more common for them to have a large tree central to the community than a stone. I didn't really get any more info from them, or find any connection to the storytelling tradition I was pining for, and I went from one to another till I gave up.

I know a lot of places have been named "druid" mistakenly by early antiquarians who mislabelled them, but some do feature in druid, or celtic myths. Crom was worshipped by the Crooked Druids, the Cruimetheme, at a circle in Ireland which Patrick destroyed, for instance. Deirdre dashes her brains on a large standing stone to commit suicide in some folk tales too, though that isnt druid so much as celtic. I'll keep scrolling through the ones thrown up on the TMA pages search, but most don't mention any folklore connected to druids, so I'm assuming they are elder antiquarians fanciful names.

It's a epochal problem , druids are historical and the stone circles are prehistoric which doesn't mean to say there was never a onnection but impossible to prove either way .

M

moss Oct 12, 2009 11:54:36

Replying to Branwen

" but most don't mention any folklore connected to druids, so I'm assuming they are elder antiquarians fanciful names."

Yup, but nevertheless interesting in how prehistoric stones figured in thinking..most 'druidon' naming would have probably come from the 18th century when the idea got floated around. History says of the 'celtic' period that it was the sacred tree/bile* that was to be found as the centre of their villages. Later, early 'desert' monks would have followed the old roman roads, which in turn went by the barrows and circles of an earlier age - thats why, sometimes, churches are on old sites or nearby. Conversion from one faith to another ie paganism to christianity was probably conducted by some poor creature of a monk standing atop a barrow declaiming the wicked ways of the old gods ..

* and of course there was an interesting discussion about a fossilised tree/stone in Bryn Celli ddu's chamber. (see Rupert Soskin's photo) http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/352/bryn_celli_ddu.html

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TheStandingStone Oct 12, 2009 12:36:41

Replying to Branwen

I've always been led to believe that although stone circles may have been important to Druids they has no hand in their construction and basically inherited them. I find it interesting that in England there is a strong neo-Druidism whereas here in Ireland it is not so strong. I've yet to meet a neo-Druid at a stone circle in Ireland but always run into them in England. I think it's the strong Catholicism that still run throughout Ireland that has prevented this from happening.

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tjj Oct 12, 2009 13:01:37

Replying to Branwen

As ever Branwen ... you go where angels fear to tread. Good on you.

I am waiting for a dental appointment and to take my mind off a throbbing tooth I took down my copy of "Irish Druids and Old Irish Religions" by James Bonwick. Here is an extract:

Stone Worship
In many lands shapeless stones have been adored. Among several ancient nations the idea of Divinity was symbolized by a rough stone. That aerolites should be revered is not surprising, since they, as the idol stone of Ephesus, came down from heaven. A single pillar stone might well, in rude times, typify a generative force. Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, Mercury, and Diana Patroa were adored as stone columns. A circle of upright stones has been reverenced from the Pacific, across the Old World, to the Atlantic …

It has been customary to call circles, cromlechs, Logan stones, pillar stones, serpentine and alignment stones by the appellation of Druidical. As these however are found in Japan, China, India, Persia, Arabia, Palestine, Barbary and every country in Europe, North and South America as well as in the Pacific Isles, it would imply certainly a very wide range of Druids. No one would deny that that in some parts, as Brittany and the British Isles, so-called Druids probably used such stones, as being already objects of reverence, without crediting them either as their builders, or as the originators of Stone Worship.

He also writes a chapter called:
The Culdees of Druidical Days which I have yet to read.
The first (pre-Roman) Christians had many similarities with the druids of the day. I am sure you know Branwen, Iona is still called the Druid's Isle by Highlanders and the Druids undoubtedly posessed it before it the introduction of Christianity.

H

hotaire Oct 14, 2009 15:34:10

Replying to Branwen

Hello Branwen,

Druids are awkward because they left no writings of their own, and many later people had strange ideas about them - most of them probably very romantic.

With regard 'Druids's Temple' : People of all ages a.d. have stuck fanciful names onto pre-historic sites they didn't understand. In N. Yorks., we have a Danes' Dyke which predates the Danish invasion by at least 1,000 years. A lot of old henges - Studford Ring (N. Yorks) and Maiden's Grave (E. Yorks) for example - were called 'stud folds' in medieval cartularies, too, quite ignoring the fact that a crippled donkey could be out of them in seconds. You can't rely on any of them.

A brief commentary on recent thinking about Druids can be found in the Blog section - 'Druid, Druid, wherefore art thou'. Quite amusing - just shows how a serious debate lasting 180 years could all be started by a mis-classification! Ha, what a wonderful world.