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Bit of an open question I realise, but one I was thinking on...

What’s the consensus on touching / climbing / decorating / leaving offerings on monuments?

I know we shouldn't uncover rock art, chalk it to make it more visible, climb on standing stones, take stones from or add to cairns, and graffiti is damaging to the surface of stone and is properly annoying... but if you had to draw up a list of rules for interacting with sites what would it be? And what are the reasons for each 'rule'?

I always wonder about keeping to wear marks in the turf when visiting places - then wonder if I’m better spreading the erosion? I seem to remember reading years ago about leaving coin offerings being chemically damaging? I know people aren’t keen on offerings left at sites at all, but Is that mostly an aesthetic thing - or is there some greater reason?

One reason I'm asking is my kids were sitting all over cairn curb stones not long back, and whilst I wasn't worried about them being unstable, I found myself saying 'no don't play horses on the stones....' and then struggling to put forward a coherent reason ..because you may damage the lichen...ermmm'.

So I'd like to get it straight :-)

Also I was wondering from a work point of view - how damaging could clambering all over cairn stones be to photograph them, or, say, covering part of a stone standing stone perhaps in leaves using it as part of a land art installation, or temporarily draping yarn on a stone to create an effect and photograph it, then remove it? All things that have fleeted through my mind as ideas but I’ve not been able to decide the risks involved… Just examples

You seem to have covered most aspects Nicki, there is also this charter which is basic common sense
http://www.stone-circles.org.uk/stone/charter.htm

I have noticed that English Heritage are also putting something on their information boards about prohibiting unauthorised metal detecting at sites they are responsible for. Its easy to forget about issues such as erosion which is a big problem at Avebury and on West Kennet Long Barrow as people always walk on the banks and to the end of the long barrow.

You're inviting a whole heap of "tat" related posts here, aren't you? :-D

I very much doubt you will get genuine consensus on this one Nicki.

I never leave anything at a site (I try to take rubbish away, if it's small and portable). I don't like "offerings" at all, it's just rubbish to my mind. I must admit this is pretty much one of my two areas of zero tolerance when it comes to sites. Not so concerned about plant-life (flowers) taken from nearby - but even then only if they're not rare or likely to be endangered by being picked!!

I don't think touching the stones is really going to cause any major issues, unless there's delicate carvings involved. Even though the repeated touching of a stone is going to smooth it eventually, perhaps that's part of why they're there - at least in the case of stones that were erected to be seen and exposed to the elements. Maybe it is different in some cases - limestone is easily eroded and much of the limestone used in monuments was not meant to be "on show" - eg if covered with a mound. You're not going to damage granite by touching it with your hands though.

The climbing is a weird one. I wouldn't dream of climbing on a standing stone, and probably not onto a capstone of a chambered tomb, if it was "balanced": this is probably just about not wanting the thing to collapse! But I quite happily climb onto the back of an earthen barrow, even though this is as/more likely to cause damage than the equivalent action on a stone tomb would.

Don't mess with the cairn - that's my other no-tolerance thing. F***ing walkers mess up any semblance of structure in the upland cairns, and it's really unnecessary. Need shelter? Bring a hat/coat/tent.

Erosion is best kept to a small area. So if you're on a path that's eroding away through use, you should stay on the eroded bit if possible. That way repairs may be possible to the area that's worst affected. Not sure that this really applies to bits of sites though (hillfort or henge banks) - maybe you should avoid the eroded area completely?

The problem with any "rules" is that we're in danger of treating these places like museum pieces rather than living, breathing monuments. I don't want the places to be roped-off, or in a box/visitor centre situation. So the best way to avoid that happening is to not mess them about when you visit. That way no-one will need to fence them off.

I also think that sites should be restored, where the material is still on site and it is obvious what goes/went where. Not that this is really what your post is about, unless you're VERY strong. :-D

It's a bit of a Schrodinger's cat situation , if the rock art has never been discovered you don't know it is rock art until it is uncovered .

summerlands wrote:
... say, covering part of a stone standing stone perhaps in leaves using it as part of a land art installation, or temporarily draping yarn on a stone to create an effect and photograph it, then remove it?
... or a small knitted monkey?

IMHO, the old saying 'Take only photographs and leave only footprints' is my number one rule and applies everywhere and to everyone.

Putting something on a site to photograph or as a votive offering and then removing it straight away once you have finished is fine in my opinion but leaving something is just littering no matter what it is or the intention behind it.

Next would be to only climb or walk on a monument if you have to! e.g. at Wideford Hill you have to physically walk on the tomb to be able to enter it through the 'trap door' in the centre. Similarly with WKLB which is not ideal but that's the way it works.
Constant climbing on and walking around a standing stone say, could destabilise it over time. Although this can happen through natural erosion there is no need to speed up the process is either.

Creating rain gutters by walking the same route at a site will accelerate damage but as long as there is some official body to monitor it and kept in check then thats ok however common sense would say to me if everybody walk on less eroded areas then that spreads the erosion and rain would not be so easily channelled to on and cause further problems (but I am no expert).

Touching...well we all like touch...don't we? I am not sure how easily lichen are damaged by touch although Rhiannon may be able to help on that front but constant touching of stone in a single area obviously does produce wear and this should be bourn in mind with such things as RA.

Oh, and graffiti of any sort (e.g chalk) is just plain wrong and those responsible should be... (add your own sentence here).

just my tuppence worth :o)

Errr, many of the sites we visit are open to livestock who appear to be unaware that they should not be trampling, climbing, and pooing ( TCP )on all of those delicate mounds, stones and rock art.

Now, you could argue that the presence of larger animals such as cows ( and definitely bulls! ) at a site might reduce the amount of human visitors willing to share a visit with them, but of course the livestock tend to visit for a lot longer than humans and therefore must generate a higher TCP burden on the site than human visits alone.

An single average size cow is way up on the trample meter compared to either of us, having more considerably more mass and twice as many feet, and it would definitely beat us in the pooing stakes too.

And as for the wild flowers, well.........

Oh what can I say? What is acceptable? Take only photos? Well mibbe not! Where shall I begin?

On Arran a few years back, I'd trudged from Glenashdale Falls over the top of Glas Choirein and wound my way through the last bit of forestry to emerge in the clearing at the mighty Carn Ban. I almost tripped over a couple interacting with one another (and presumably the site's ambience) in the clearing right in front of me. There was the inevitable awkward moment or two as I stumbled over the heather and bracken to walk around them. I had to climb up to the top of the slope and wait till they'd finished before I could take photo's. I felt to have started taking photos immediately would have been unacceptable.
About 15 years ago the highway robbery of the Skye Bridge Tolls was still in full force. I held no truck with such nonsense and always took the wee swing-on chain ferry from Glenelg to Kylerhea. On one occasion the ferryman was having lunch and there were a couple of loads of cars ahead of me so me and my OH took a ramble up to the pair of brochs in nearby Gleann Beag to kill and hour or so. I'd always wanted to see them again since my dad took us there when I was a wee boy. How quickly those exciting childhood memories of playing in the ruined brochs with my wee brother were dashed. I cannot for the life of me now remember whether it was poor unfortunate Dun Telve or poor unfortunate Dun Troddan, but when my OH and I entered the structure there was a Goretexed chappie at his toilet, sitting on the edge of the well-preserved dry-stone walling, bog roll in hand. Again we had to retreat and wait to take our photos.
But let's put the "taking photos" angle aside...
I've found broken bottles, fag ends, joint butts, sandwich boxes, tin cans and just about every form of food and drink packaging you could name on sites. I've visited chambered cairns where people had used the actual chamber as a hearth.
I usually pick up and carry out any garbage other people have left behind (the Dun Telve/Dun Troddan example excepted). In many ways I am glad people still head for sites and have some kinda wee celebration there. I am often disappointed that they simply cannot clean up after themselves.

Inserting coins into cracks in stones can result in the stone cracking Nicki. The use of t-lights can also damage stones (not to mention just how environmentally unfriendly the little critters themselves are). As for the old ‘tat’ chestnut; food and drink can and does attract vermin, and one person’s offering is another person’s rubbish. Best to leave nothing, not even footprints (and the resulting erosion of sites from same by frequent or mass intrusion).

In the context of the ‘free access’ argument, there is a worrying parallel between the increase in visitor numbers to a site and the damage that can cause. Ten or fifteen years ago, for example, there was hardly anything left at the Swallowhead Spring, and what was left there was mainly a few, hardly noticeable, wicker objects in the tree. Now the place has reached tipping point (pun intended ;-) outdone only by the mess left at Stonehenge after the ‘celebrations’ there at solstice time.

In other words, as visitors to sites increase so too does the increase in tat and the erosion of those places - re: this recently photographed scene at the Rollright Stones. Most people on this board are aware of the problems of tat, and erosion at sites, and follow the guidelines of not climbing on structures or leaving things. Sadly not every visitor to a site is a Stonehead, and climbing on stones etc is seen by some as a bit of a lark - in some cases even a god-given right.

IMHO the only right thing is the intrinsic right of a site (or in the wider context our cultural and environmental heritage) to survive undamaged, and our obligation to future generations to preserve those places and things as best we can...