Sacred directions

Rhiannon Nov 28, 2017 22:44:39

I heard most of this on the way home the other night
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09gfcgy
- an episode of 'beyond belief'. I thought it very much fed into that perennial tma favourite topic of sacred places.
Naturally it was focusing on Christianity with a bit of other faiths / cultures thrown in. But also some stuff about the seasons and the spinning of the earth and paganism. And even a nod to 'but convince me this isn't all guff'. Which was quite nice really.

thought you might like it. Or at least find it interesting.
There was a bit of an eyebrow -raising moment where someone suggested that there's archaeological evidence for the direction people walked round circles. But I fear that really is guff because I can't imagine what that could be. Glad to be told should it be true.

A bit that sticks in my mind is the common idea of doing things sunwise, clockwise, east to west. But that (apparently) the followers of Shintoism in Japan go the other way because that way they greet the sun rather than following it. I could do with greeting a bit of sun right now.

nigelswift Nov 29, 2017 07:31:04

Replying to Rhiannon

Evergreen Dazed Nov 29, 2017 10:24:50

Replying to Rhiannon

Cheers, I will give this a listen when I get the chance.
Archaeological evdience for walking direction around circles is intruiging, I can't think what that could possibly be.

I'm very wary of those kind of statements, I must admit. It's not a circle, obviously, but I remember the Gaffney suggestion about the cursus 'procession' at SH :

“It now seems likely that other ceremonial monuments in the surrounding landscape were directly articulated with rituals at Stonehenge. It is possible that processions within the Cursus moved from the eastern pit at sunrise, continuing eastwards along the Cursus and, following the path of the sun overhead, and perhaps back to the west, reaching the western pit at sunset to mark the longest day of the year. Observers of the ceremony would have been positioned at the Heel Stone, of which the two pits are aligned.”

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2011/11/25Nov-Discoveries-provide-evidence-of-a-celestial-procession-at-Stonehenge.aspx

Seems extremely unlikely to me for a number of reasons, not least for the snail-like speed it would entail.

Also when we visit a monument today we seem to have a compulsion to walk around it, regardless of what kind of site it is, be it a circle, hillfort, whatever, because, I think, we want to see it all. Or know that we've seen everything there is to see there. I wonder if walking 'around' something, in that sense, is a fairly modern idea? I don't know.

When I try to imagine the neolithic goings-on at a place like Avebury, I personally never think of people proceeding around the circle in that sense. But then again I do think of them walking the avenues.. But perhaps they are more obviously 'directional'? I think i'm in danger of getting lost in a sea of unanswerable questions and half-constrcuted thoughts! I will stop there.

Will def give the program a listen anyway.

tjj Nov 29, 2017 15:57:00

Replying to Rhiannon

Just listened to that Rhiannon, thanks - yes, reflective and interesting. I identified most with what the Pagan had to say as in North representing winter, security, hearth and home; East - growth and Spring; Summer - passion and vitality; and finally West - autumn and ageing. I was reminded of the number of prehistoric wedge tombs and small stone circles are on the west coast, particularly the south west coast of Ireland. And as has been said many times before, a circle doesn't face any direction and all directions.
Also smiled last week when one of the archaeologists on 'Digging for Britain' involved with the Avebury 'discovery' of a square apparently predating the stone circle referred to it as a 'square circle' - thereby solving the mathematical conundrum of squaring the circle.

goffik Nov 29, 2017 15:59:26

Replying to Rhiannon

I wonder if it's a case of where you start the journey... OK maybe I should say "in my experience it depends on where I start the journey." :)

For example... In Avebury, if I start from the National Trust Zone (NW sector) I tend to follow the circle in an anti-clockwise route. And if I have a wander from, say, the Megameet Zone (SE sector) then I'll generally follow it clockwise. Unless I'm heading back to the car park.

Boskawen-Un - anti-clockwise, Long Meg & Her Daughter - clockwise, Rempstone -
clockwise, Castlerigg - either direction, actually... Callanish - same. I'll not go through them all. ;)

I'd not really thought about it in any detail, and will probably continue to not do so. ;) Except now of course I'll notice it. :D

G x