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Re: Romano British Goat
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Hi, firstly can you see and appreciate the carved eye I mentioned?
What do you think? Is it not in a far more anatomically correct position for an eye?..Rather than the natural hole the researchers claim to be the eye? On the other hand the natural mouth feature does look like it was perhaps chosen for a starting point. I won’t say it’s a poorly executed goat anymore than I would say its a poorly executed stag. Remember the team themselves thought it was an ibex to begin with.
Quote “Our initial assessment is that this is the figure of a male ibex and it’s style suggests a date of 12,500-12,000 years ago” British Archaeology issue 72 Sept 2003.
How did this article get to be printed in such a publication before any proper research/dating had been done? Dated stylistically? Surely a goat is a goat is a goat..? Ask any artist today to draw a goat in profile and they’ll no doubt come up with something pretty similar?
I tried yesterday to upload an image I took of where exactly the samples of flowstone had been taken from, but this site wasn’t accepting images for some reason. I’ll try again. People will clearly see that the flowstone does not overlay the goat/stag engraving. So how has this engraving been sufficiently dated?
U series dating for cave art in any case has been said to be an inadequate method from what I gather. Even if the samples did overlay the image I’d have liked to have seen it blind tested and done by someone other than a colleague of the research team so as to promote a greater confidence in the results. The research team themselves have said just because evidence of palaeolithic material has been found it doesn’t automatically mean any art/engraving found is contemporary. Which is common sense. And yet..
The only other samples taken for dating were from near to the engraving further into the cave, the long necked birds, or as one researcher claims, quote ‘naked ladies dancing'. So these two samples are dating up to ten motifs by association...I just don’t get it.
I don’t want to be pointing fingers too much or mentioning names here and you’ll have to trust me about Roger’s views. It came from an experienced and reliable source. I was a little surprised she gave this information away in some ways. I respect her for that though.

What does it mean?

Broadly it means people should never be afraid to question the ‘experts’ findings..and their motives. Specifically it means that individuals and organisations are potentially making money and names for themselves without a solid foundation of evidence. But that’s the thing with Archaeology, you can come up with any theory you like and sell it pretty much as fact. Plus if it is a depiction of a goat it would be more likely that it’s been engraved in more recent times. It only takes a hundred years or so for carved stone in the open air to achieve full patina. Many examples of graffiti in the caves at Creswell from the 18th/19th century have full patina, including examples toward the end of the passage in Church Hole.
Having said all this I would encourage anyone to visit the Crags, the gorge and caves are marvellous. Just don’t be afraid to ask questions if like me you’re not completely convinced about something. I’ve read on many sites how people have felt so privileged to have viewed the art..I used to feel like that and it saddens me. I could be wrong. I don’t have any hard evidence to say the engravings aren’t palaeolithic in date..but I don’t think there’s the evidence to say they are either, beyond reasonable doubt. The Crags seem to have a history of controversial finds...Ochre Horse, planted? PinHole Man which was found by the same man that faked (allegedly!) the Chalk Goddess found at Grimes Graves..poor Crags.

Thank you Gladman for taking this subject up. Check out Robert Bednarik, he seems to be one of the only Cave Art researchers publicly calling the teams approach and findings into question. There’s much more I could say on this matter and I feel I’ve kept it fairly tame being a public forum..I don’t want to get kicked off!

‘Money rules the game’


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Posted by Amil04
1st October 2017ce
18:27

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Re: Romano British Goat (GLADMAN)

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Re: Romano British Goat (thelonious)

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