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 Re: OT: Government's attitude to green energy 80 messages | Select a forum: |
tjj wrote: Gladman, it does look as though the threat of glaciers to the communities who live near them is receding due to the acceleration of global warming but that is just one small aspect of the big picture as parts of Africa become arid wastelands and other parts of the world are decimated by floods. I totally disagree that the (quote) 'global warming data has been falsified for political and profit and doesn't reflect the true picture' - I personally believe the reverse. That the millions of individuals in their cars and ever so important plane journeys across the sky are cause of all this. And yes I you can call me a hypocrite because although I don't own a car I'll always accept a lift if one is going as most of us operate on the basis that 'life is short' grab as much as you can while you can. Roy, I hadn't considered nuclear testing aspect; I'm sure the people of Nagasaki and Hiroshima would agree with you. Its part of the hell bent journey of destruction that mankind seemed to embark on at the beginning of the 20th Century - what went wrong? Super intelligence along with super-egotism and greed, perhaps this has always been who we are as a species! This is naturally a very emotive subject.... as it bloody well should be.... and I don't think the extreme views reported in the media from either side of the public debate are helping us get to the bottom of what's really going on. I think it was Theodore Roosevelt who said every reform movement has a lunatic fringe which cloud the true issues, and this would appear to be no different. In a democracy we need to move to obtain a generally accepted middle position by open minded debate, not by establishing 'them' and 'us' camps and hurling abuse. Falsifing data - not alleged, but reported fact - or turning the issue into a crusade with what virtually amounts to dogmatic pseudo-religion in the vanguard cannot be the way forward. Just as regarding eco-warriors as 'crusties' disregards the fact that there are serious - very serious - issues to be addressed which will not go away. My current view - based on what I've read (and understood) from both 'camps' and those pertaining to be neutral, for what it's worth - is that greenhouse gas emissions are contributing to, and probably accelerating (although to what extent is still open to much debate) a natural trend of rising temperatures in the African continent prevalent across many millennia, the adverse effects of which may well have prompted the very first anatomically 'modern' humans to leave Africa in the first place and begin to populate the rest of the earth some 80k years ago. In short, natural phenomenona over which we have no control - at least no reductive control. Clearly I'm no expert, but I understand that climatic changes in one area have knock on effects in others, hence all the changing weather patterns we are seeing. The salient question for me is now much of a climatic difference imposing, say, draconian measures upon travel etc will have vis-a-vis the extreme economic upheaval this will entail. Some say negligable, others a significant effect, although the fact that data was falsified to support the latter view may well suggest political motive. In short, the scientists can't agree, so how the hell can we... a middle position would appear the best bet at present. Neverthelss it makes logical sense to me to go full out to find alternatives to fossil fuel now... since pumping anything even potentially harmful into the atmosphere when there is a credible alternative would not make sense. Motor companies should be morally persuaded to cease production of ridiculous sports cars and focus upon how society is going to get around in the future when the oil's gone. Population has soared to such an extent that any notion of returning to how we used to be pre-Industrial Revolution is frankly ludicrous, so unless a new source of energy can be discovered the future is bleak indeed, even with severe population growth restrictions. Guess we are looking for a new Einstein-calibre (or above) genius to get us out of this mess. As Mr Cope said once, 'there aint no getting 'round getting 'round', not without society collapsing into anarchy. I've recently finished reading Stephen Oppenheimer's 'Out of Eden' [ISBN 978 - 184119 - 894 -1 in case anyone's interested] concerning current thought relating to humankind's first break-out from Africa to populate the world.... one thing (of many) I didn't appreciate was the climatic changes he describes as occurring during our species' time on the planet, which are quite mind-blowing. Parts of the book are a bit over my head, to be honest, but it is quite matter of fact that we - as a species - are still more or less recovering from the last Ice Age and will inevitably have to endure another at some point when the glaciers return to take everything we've built - I assume more or less in the same locations as the last one - with them.... assuming we haven't affected the earth's eco system to such an extent to stop that happening. However it would appear not, if the experts know anything at all. One wonders if accelerated 'Global Warming' could even become official policy to ward off such a catastrophe? Pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere as a lesser evil than having northern civilisation annihilated by advancing ice sheets. Interesting thought? How long term should our planning be? Walking the highlands of Britain on a regular basis the wind farm is becoming a regular sight... What is puzzling to me, however, is that they often appear - to me - poorly located to utilise the prevailing wind, barely rotating in substantial wind, sometimes not at all. I once asked a farmer in Mid Wales about this and he replied that he tried to tell the 'experts' they were putting the things on the wrong hill, but they wouldn't listen. In too much of a hurry to get the bloody things up.... read into that the true intentions, then. Political point scoring is entirely counter-productive. So is scare-mongering. What we need are facts. Not dogma. Reply | with quote |  19th November 2011ce 15:59 In reply to: Re: OT: Government's attitude to green energy (tjj) |
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