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Re: Rock art. so what's that all about then. ?
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tiompan wrote:
faerygirl wrote:
I think there is something in it. Regardless of the overall effect there is usually reference to zigzags, metallic or silvery surroundings, swirls and spirals. I will say that my own experiences with hallucinogens made colours and sounds uncomfortable, which would explain ancient mans use of caves. Everyone I know who has experienced hallucinogens say that straight lines "dance" and zigzag back and forth and I know of 2 people who have experienced the feeling of falling through a swirling vortex (sadly not myself). This seems to be regardless of the hallucinogen and these are generally just mild substances when compared to Ibogaine or Ayahuasca.


Just a few mushroom images, usually seen alongside bird imagery, swirls, zigzags etc

http://dreamstudies.org/2008/1[...]allucinogens-in-the-stone-age/

Tanzanian mushroom headed people- http://www.racctz.org/FoodofheGods_files/blocks_image_2_1.png

Saharan ancient art of mushrooms- www.saharajournal.com/13/graphics/b-Dupuy3-175.gif

I really like this guy holing a mushroom in one hand and a big swirl in the other- http://travel.sulekha.com/unit[...]f-the-cedars-blanding-utah.jpg

Texan rock art with concentric circles and a mushroom- http://www.dirtbrothers.org/pbone/SweatLodgel.jpg

** I was trying to find a picture I have seen in a book (cant even remember which bloody book now! Possibly "The Spirit Molecule" Or maybe "The Cosmic Serpent" ) of a cave drawing of a man standing in a spiral and he has mushroom sfor fingers. Cant find it though!**

Im not saying that it is ALL the case of being on a trip and drawing what you see, but there is a huge amount of imagery across the globe of swirls, zigzags etc, AND a huge use of hallucinogens by these same people. Once something is used a few times and others see the symbol, it can simply become a symbol that people use, whether they understand why they use it (or even why they make the stone circles) is debatable.

What's happened to the shamen ?
Most of the rock art in the UK and Atlantic Europe consists of cup marks with rings , zig zags , spirals etc are rare .
It's a common feature of post hallucinatory experience to find these same experiences recorded elsewhere . How often since Albert Hoffman's invention have people commented that it must have influenced anything they perceived as "trippy" ,whether Celia Derbyshire , Richard Dadd , Beethoven etc . What is experienced by homo saps when hallucinating or not is a far richer array of motifs than is found in rock art , which is actually quite limited , you could be sure if the motifs were entirely different someone somewhere would agree to them being similar to their "visuals" whilst tripping . We simply don't what was going on in the heads of the engravers of prehistoric rock art and to suggest that the motifs were inspired by drug inspired hallucinations provides a simplistic explanation not dissimilar to those where any great work of imagination , artistry skill or effort is explained as being achieved with the aid of the devil /aliens , not that it is particualrly difficult to engrave cups etc .
The pic is not in the "Cosmic Serpent "


Well it was usually the shamans in each society (still is in places that still HAVE shamans) who would put themselves into a trance-like state for the good of the rest of the tribe. Its an assumption that not all people were doing the drug and that a select few would take the hallucinogen and report back. Your last post was refering directly to the outcome of a hallucination in the present tense (even telling me to ask people who have had the experience) therefore I responded in a similar way.

And spirals and concentric circles are rare?
Long Meg, Little Meg, Newgrange, Gayles Moor, Barclodiad y Gawres, Leonards Cragg, Panorama Stone, The Grey Stone, Fourknocks (GREAT zigzags there), Forenachts, Drumirril. And countless more, they are just the ones off the top of my head. Im not saying there are more spirals or zigzags than cup marks, but its not fair to say they are rare.

Just found this good website with some European spiral art (as well as other places!) although its almost certainly counter-productive to my argument as I think its suggesting nature as the influence. Ah well, it has nice art all the same. The religions bit is quite good :)
http://spiralzoom.com/Culture/ArchetypeIntro/Archetypes.html

I dont believe its a simplistic explaination, my own studies into this have lead me on a confusing spiritual quest that I have been plodding on for around 6 years now and I have read about and visited many ancient places and religious centres around the world to try to understand more. I didn't suggest that its nothing but swirls drawn by people on trips as I think this is far from the truth. I believe these things are attempts at preserving something for future generations to see and understand. Most ancient cultures believed in reincarnation and I think they were leaving messages for themselves. This is why I think they used such huge stones at Stonehenge, Avebury, Giza, Ba'albek, Le Grand Menhir Brise, Easter Island etc. Because its harder to destroy the huge stones, they WILL still be there for the future. AND I think its why some of these stones (if not most at sometime ?!) are carved. They are trying to tell us something... We just know what!


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faerygirl
Posted by faerygirl
26th July 2010ce
14:40

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