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National Museum Denmark / Image by tiompan

The day gilded one is seen as being brighter going in one direction i.e.west /right to left and the other bronze one being duller is the night one going east /left to right . That's the least speculative it gets , the real speculation starts elsewhere and now includes Uffington . tiompan Posted by tiompan
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

Correct!

Once more.

It is not N/S.

It is not NNE/SSW.

It is a number of degrees off both.

You are saying that from the perspective of a viewer in the vale that the horse is facing broadly toward the sunset (you don't mention which but i assume the winter solstice). I don't see that at all.

The paper states, among other things, broadly east-west.

That is not true. It's very obviously not the case.
Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce

South Vatersay / Image by thelonious

I like these wee cairns :-) drewbhoy Posted by drewbhoy
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

Earlier: "The horse is broadly N/S."

Now: "I have never said it is N/S.

It is not N/S. It is not NNE/SSW."

We seem to have run out of compass points. What orientation do you put it on?
thesweetcheat Posted by thesweetcheat
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

Oh wow.

I have never said it is N/S.

It is not N/S. It is not NNE/SSW.

The horse is not facing broadly toward winter solstice sunset.

I have to step back now i'm afraid, because I am repeating myself and we're getting nowhere.
Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

The photo from the vale has been taken from NWish.

How can the horse be seen to follow a broadly east-west route from this view?
Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

You can see from the satellite that it's NNE/SSW, not north-south. The head is SW of the tail, it's not due south of it.

And it does give that impression, when viewed from the ground. We're not going to agree, but I think there is more to the argument being made than you're giving credit to.

For what it's worth, I don't accept that this proves any link between the horse and the sun. I do however accept the premise that the horse is facing broadly towards the sunset, and as the figure is clearly in motion it's following a route which heads towards the sun, not away from it.
thesweetcheat Posted by thesweetcheat
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

There is no 'sun roll', the sun does not rise immediately behind the horse (from DH as claimed), and I do not see the horse following a broadly east-west route, even with the viewer seeing the image stretched across the hillside facing them. Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

From the report :

..Its north-east to south-west alignment (wrong, as you've agreed), with the head to the south-west (wrong, as you've agreed), gives the impression of the figure following a broadly east–west route.(wrong, as I hope you agree)

Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

There's disagreement because you're viewing in terms of compass alignments whereas I'm viewing it in terms of viewer perspective from the ground.

Here's the view from the vale:
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/58105/uffington_white_horse.html

The viewer is viewing a two dimensional image stretched across the hillside facing them, with the head facing right. The sun would be setting out of shot to the right. The horse would therefore be heading towards the sunset from the viewer's perspective.
thesweetcheat Posted by thesweetcheat
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

I can't believe there is disagreement about this. It is plain.

10 degrees from SSW is not SSW. It is 10 degrees from it.

Your 2nd paragraph - The sunset will be over to the right of that because the sun sets (in midwinter) broadly SW. Summer - NW. Equinox - W.

The horse is broadly N/S.

I don't think I can make this any clearer.

Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

The head doesn't point south, the orientation is SSW/NNE, as George says above "Yes it is close to the southern side of SW (approx 202 degrees )about 10 degrees from SSW"

https://zoom.earth/#51.576928,-1.564144,16z,sat

The viewer from the vale is viewing it displayed across the side of the hill, not from an aerial viewpoint. To them the head of the horse is at the right, the tail is at the left. The sunset will be over to the right of that, I think at any time of year.
thesweetcheat Posted by thesweetcheat
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

"The viewers right (west)"

Eh? It might be to the viewers right, but the head points just off south.

Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

I never said it isn't aligned NE/SW (although it isn't).

It isn't NNE/SSW either.

I was saying that the figure doesn't follow a 'broadly east-west route'. (because it doesn't).
Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

Yes, and there's a lot in there that I don't agree with.

But here I'm picking up on your comments about the direction that the horse 'appears' to be galloping in and that it isn't aligned NE/SW, which is true if you're looking at it from above, although it is NNE/SSW.

Viewed from the north (as tjj was doing), the horse does appear to be heading to the viewer's right (west) which is towards the setting sun.
thesweetcheat Posted by thesweetcheat
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

SC, have you read the paper? Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

Tjj, you're getting the wrong end of the stick, if you don't mind me saying so.

George isn't saying you can't see a sunset from Uffington(!), he's talking about the orientation and the stuff in the paper.
Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

I think tjj is right, the question is where the horse/sunset is viewed from, not whether the horse itself aligns with the sunset on the horizon. Presumably when viewing the horse from the vale to the north, the sunset will be over on the right from the viewer's perspective, at any time of year, so the horse will appear to be heading towards it. thesweetcheat Posted by thesweetcheat
17 Aug 17ce

National Museum Denmark / Image by tiompan

Well everyone will have done sun worship at some point and from there the logical step is to ask how it crosses the sky - and to provide a suitable answer (chariot/ship/horses). I was more interested in the idea that the two metals signify night and day on the disc, that seems rather more speculative. thesweetcheat Posted by thesweetcheat
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

Well I beg to differ George. As I said in a comment above - I saw for myself from a train (probably the best land view of the White Horse) the reflection of the setting sun over Uffington Hill and White Horse. This was one evening late July at around 8.00pm. Mock the article if you will, its no skin off my nose but please don't tell me there is no setting sun to be seen. The views from Uffington Hill are wide and far reaching - I can't vouch for the actual horizon but the setting sun must be visible from there. Anyway carry if you must, glad you find it so amusing. tjj Posted by tjj
17 Aug 17ce

National Museum Denmark / Image by tiompan

That was just the basis .
It's like a possible glimpse of the cosmology of BA has been used to explain everything , and it is widely accepted in Scandinavia ,with not too much dissent .
tiompan Posted by tiompan
17 Aug 17ce

National Museum Denmark / Image by tiompan

Ace, thanks for that. A proper rabbit hole to fall down by the sounds of it :) thesweetcheat Posted by thesweetcheat
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

Well , not only is the difference clear , there is no sign of any associated sun .
Just as well there are no cup marks in the area or they would have become symbolic suns , no matter how many . Mind you there is the round barrow and that is where it heading . And the direction it is facing is towards a part of the horizon where the sun is never seen to rise or set , maybe it got lost .
tiompan Posted by tiompan
17 Aug 17ce

National Museum Denmark / Image by tiompan

Well maybe not so dense , a lot of people buy the story without question ,and the Trundholm aspect is it's strongest hand .
It's a long one but really interesting , lots of twists and the fact that it was first noted in the 1960's in an obscure book by Åke Ohlmarks who suggested connections between Egyptian solar myths and Scandinavian material culture . It was ignored ,but when Flemming Kaul , a /the major Danish archaeo came up with something similar everyone paid attention , he then claimed he had never heard of the original theory .
It extends to other Indo -European myths ;essentially the sun is carried on a ship(or horse drawn chariot " from east to west during the day and at night it returns via the underworld again by ship or chariot .
The Rigveda has a similar story of the Ashvins , the heavenly horsemen twins who symbolise sun rise and sun set (elsewhere they are Castor & Pollux, Hengist & Horsa etc ).
The theory gets widened to include fish , serpents , cup marks etc and no attention is paid to directions of the various components all that matters is whether they are facing right which equates with day ,or left , night .
You can't go wrong .Whilst the comparative mythology is intriguing a lot of Scandinavian thinking simply fits BA imagery and material culture into the theory . It's incredibly lazy , anyway I'd better shut up .
tiompan Posted by tiompan
17 Aug 17ce

Uffington White Horse / Link by tjj

As you said George, the difference in orientation is very clear. Evergreen Dazed Posted by Evergreen Dazed
17 Aug 17ce
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